Lessons from Pamella Roland, Fashion Designer, on Hard Work, Working with Celebrities, and How to find your place in fashion
Today's podcast guest is Pamella Rolland and we're excited to have such an illustrious designer on the podcast and dressmaker for the stars. Pamella is the founder and designer behind the eponymous brand Pamella Roland, a couture fashion label that is featured in retailers like Bergdorf Goomdan, Neiman Marcus, and Saks Fifth Avenue.
Pamella's work is often spotted on the red carpet, with celebrities such as Angelina Jolie, Taylor Swift, Karlie Kloss, Jennifer Hudson, Emmy Rossum, Lily Collins, Hillary Rhoda, Eva Langoria, Madonna, and many many more. The brand received the prestigious gold cost award in its second year of operations and Pamela herself was inducted into the council of fashion designers of America. On top of that, she received an award for being the top-woman owned business in her home state of Michigan, and has raised three children, Cassandra, Sydney, and Nicholas with her husband Dan.
Full Interview Transcript:
Apologies, as always, for any typos / grammar errors in transcription - cons of a one man shop :)
Jack: Welcome back everyone to the Creation Stories Podcast, where we demystify the creative process and make each day a day to make. As always, we really encourage you to review the podcast and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening to and check us out on Instagram @creationstoriesmedia, or online at www.creationstoriesmedia.com
Thanks in advance for doing this as it helps us broaden our reach and get new creatives to bring onto the show. Today's guest is fashion designer, Pamella Roland, and we're so excited to have her on the podcast as an illustrious designer and dressmaker for the stars. Pamella is the founder and designer behind the brand Pamella Roland a couture fashion label that is featured in retailers like Bergdorf Goodman, Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue. Pamella's work is often spotted on the red carpet with celebrities, such as Angelina Jolie, Taylor Swift, Karlie Kloss, Jennifer Hudson, Emmy Rossum, Lily Collins, Hilary Rhoda, Eva Longoria, Madonna, and many, many more.
The brand received the prestigious gold coast award in its second year of operations and Pamella herself was inducted into the Council of Fashion Designers of America. On top of that, she received an award for being the top woman owned business in her home state of Michigan and has raised three children, Cassandra, Sydney, and Nicholas with her husband, Dan. Please welcome Pamella to the podcast.
Jack: I think where we'll start is just a little bit about how your interests in fashion began. And if you remember when that interest began?.
Pamella: Well, my interest began, I think, as a young girl, watching my mother getting ready to go out to these galas. I mean, I was always interested I have two sisters who had no interest at all in fashion.
Then I even very young would sit there and watch her get ready. So that was even as young girl. And then when I was 15 actually I met Dan at 14 when I was 14 years old, I met him when he was 15. So I was 15 years old and I had an interview at a very, it was then a very in-store called Kay Balm and it was a hardest store to get into. And she was the manager there was very picky. Anyway, Dan just turned 16 and drove me to my interview. And so I started at 15 working at a clothing store. Today when babies are born, they give them social security numbers. I didn't have one.
And he drove me downtown to get my social security card. And what we always remember is that he just, it was brand new car and had a stick. He had a hard time getting up Michigan the hill. So it's just so funny how it just got the car. And so that memory is very, very distinct in our head, but I worked at this store for seven years. And they had one in east Lansing and I went to Michigan State. And so I went from Grand Rapids working there then also in the summers. But during the school year, I worked in East Lansing. At one time East Lansing had a lot of high-end stores and great place to shop. Now it's just all convenience stores and doesn't have the shopping it used to have. But I remember distinctly some of my friends being at the football game and I would be listening to it on the radio no one's in the store, but there I was working. So I did that. I was involved in fashion, selling clothes, all through university and everything, but I had arts background, more history you didn't really think back then in the seventies about art and design and all that. It wasn't thought of for me anyway, being from Grand Rapids. So my father said you have to have a business degree. You'll never make any money. You'll never do anything. So I have a business degree from Michigan state university with a minor in art history.
So anyways as I got married and I worked for a public relations firm for a while. But I always turned to fashion.
So we started, Pamella Roland started being produced in Canada and at the time our dollar was very strong compared to the Canadian dollar.. But we had to sell out of New York cause I was considered a New York designer.
So it's kind of confusing. We did a lot of production in Montreal spent a lot of time in Vancouver and Montreal. And then eventually we said, you know what? We need to move everything to New York. So this was, I started looking into the business. 2001. In fact, I was in a fashion week in New York when in 2001, when the 9 11, when the towers fell, I was actually at a show when they shooed us out and said, get out in the streets.
And I walked the streets. I never saw anything on TV. I didn't know why smoke was going through the air. I never believed those towers would fall until I saw the TV. And that's another story, the nine 11 story, but that's when I started looking into, starting this and I was married.
I was in my forties. I had three children. Then my first line was a very small fall line, 2002. And then we had a small resort line and then I finally did a show for spring and Neiman's picked us up. So I've been in Neiman's going on almost 20 years. Which is unheard of because a lot of people that started the same time I did, their lines don't even exist anymore.
Jack: Yeah, that's great. I'm curious on the Neiman's side, do you remember what it was like, I'm sure that first big deal was a lot of excitement for you and your team.
Pamella: Oh yeah. It was so exciting and I learned about a lot about humility from this business, for sure, because they're not nice, you know, you, you have to do a lot, and I was new and not, everything came out perfect.
And in 20 years, I mean, we've perfected our fit to a T and, and all the things we've done, but in the very beginning, it was really tough and a lot of ups and downs. We did get into Neiman's we've never been kicked out. We have always been in we've been partners with them for, it will be 20 years.
I think it's will be February, be 20 years.
Jack: Yeah, that's awesome it's funny because here in New York, anytime, if I walked past Bergdorf, I will look for the Pamella Rolland name, send a picture to my parents
Pamella: Yeah right now. I mean, we definitely were in Sachs and Bergdorf, but all through the pandemic
we sold, we continue to sell international. It's almost like in the Middle East, the pandemic didn't exist. They still wanted their clothes. Even though, New York shut down, they wouldn't even let you in the buildings. Our people were sneaking in to ship things out because the Middle East , they're saying we need our clothes.
Cause we dress them, Saudi princesses and all that. And they do things behind closed doors anyway. I mean, we're doing our pre-fall that we just produced is our best pre-Fall we've done it in the Pamella Roland History
Jack: Wow yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. You wouldn't expect that.
Pamella: Well, I think a lot of stores doing high-end gowns and, and cocktails what we're doing.
A lot of them closed. They don't exist. We don't have the competition. We just kept rolling along and I think what was great during the pandemic we weren't getting it domestic. It was, again, it was international and Paris was closed, so we weren't selling in out of Paris.
So it's crazy how it's really picked up. And our international is even gotten wider singapore and all those areas that we weren't seeing against for a while now they're opening up and Hong Kong and it's really our clothes are all over the world, really. And, about that same time, I don't know what your next.
Jack: We'll jump around a bit.
Pamella: Well, you do talk about the red carpet. So one of our, we had Will and Grace was on. I dressed Karen Megan I dressed her. In fact, she wasn't sample size. So she actually borrowed one of my dresses and she never gave it back. I was like, So tick, she didn't walk the red carpet, so it didn't get a lot of attention, even though she won the Emmy. You know, I remember screaming, like I can't believe this. But the biggest first red carpet was a huge hit. It was 2005 and it was the last season of Sex and the City I think , their last season was 2005 and it was whenever the last season Samantha Kim Catrall was up for an Emmy and we had just had her show and her stylist took it and we couldn't believe we were watching.
We didn't know for sure, but there she comes walking with our dress on, she walked right into it and that was unbelievable. I won the first I won a gold coast award in Chicago and I was there at a reception waiting to I'm supposed to what I won it the year before I'm supposed to hand off to the one who won it this year, but I'm in a back room where all this reception going on at this hotel and I'm watching the TV cause I want to see if she's wearing my dress and they all of a sudden heard me screaming. There she was. And it made the papers everywhere in the world because Sex and the City obvious was huge and she looked amazing. It was so big and it was copied.
It was such a big deal for us. Cause we were just three years old. So that was my big, big red carpet moment. But you know, since then, obviously we're, we've dressed just about everybody.
Jack: Yeah. Everywhere. Every year at something to look out for, it is something I definitely looked at.
But it's funny. Also, you mentioned this growing up, I always thought that you look like Kim Catrall
Pamella: You thought that I looked like her?
Jack: Yeah, I used to say that to my mom. We would watch it. You're like, you know,
doesn't she look like Pamella
it does like, but I remember this very distinctly because it's a family exercise to look out for Pamella Rolland dress.
Pamella: Well, you know what I remember studying there at a big fashion thing going on and I was sitting there and I had a red dress and I was crossing, my legs just leaning, waiting for the elevator. There was all these people at Bergdorf and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm going to wait till this clears out.
And this gal comes up to me and she says something like, oh my gosh. You're so Samantha, what? I'm like, oh, I'm afraid. I said, well, I'm nothing like Samantha so funny. Yeah, I mean, we've recently just made one of Paris Hilton's wedding dresses. Yeah, if you look on our Instagram you'll see that she had four wedding dresses and we made one, I mean, I have known her since she was a young girl she's wore Pamella Rolland from day one also, she was a young girl. She, Nikki go to my show quite a bit. Her sister Nikki.
But I've gotten to know a lot of the celebrities, the craziest ones I've gotten to know are the Housewives. Housewives in New York, come to the show quite a bit. And I know a lot of the Housewives of Beverly Hills too, but yeah, it's an interesting business. I'm kind of glad I don't live in New York.
Cause I think it helps me stay out of all that a little bit. I love what I do, but I love the designing side of it. A lot of people think it's so glamorous and all that, but dealing with celebrities is not always easy. I used to go to the Oscars and the Emmys and all that, and people just think, it sounds so wonderful, but you know, I'm not the one getting an award.
I'm the one dressing, some of these celebrities. They're not always easiest to deal with. Although many that I've personally dealt with have been wonderful. I mean, Paris is absolutely a dream to work with and I'm currently working with another celebrity on her wedding dress, but I can't say anything right now because it's just happening.
People always say to me, is there anybody that you would want to dress? I really, this history of, I mean, I can't even imagine a list of all the celebrities that we have dressed. Some, I don't know who they are. They're younger and I'll ask Sydney, she'll go mom, what do you mean?
You know, she's this, this and this. And I go, I don't know, who some of these actresses are, but andmany of them go to our shows, but of course there hasn't been shows lately. So I'm hoping fingers crossed that my next show that we will hopefully be in is in September when we actually want to celebrate our 20th anniversary, even though it's February, but we're not going to, it's not even worth doing a show.
Right now it just is not, especially in New York, it's just not worth it
Jack: Yeah, definitely with how things have been here over the last month. it's crazy, but it's funny, you mentioned that it's good to stay balance based on being based out of Michigan, but I'm curious.
I know you talked about being in New York, if you think about the origins, like we need to be in New York, what made you decide? Was it just because it is such a fashion center of the world, or was there something that really drew you personally to New York at that time?
Pamella: Truly, if you want to be a successful designer, I really think you have to be in New York. That is being a New York designer is, as you know, the top places in New York, Paris Milan. London. That's one of the reasons, I don't know if you know, I started a school at Kendall called the Pamella Roland Devos School of Design.
And what it is is that they go there cause they always asked me about there's fashion schools all over. I said, I really feel you need to go to school in New York to get the contacts to be there. And so what this does is you actually, a lot of kids, they're 18 they're not ready to leave home.
Their parents are too nervous about them going to New York. First of all, New York is very expensive. And just how is this all gonna work? So what our program is, you are at Kendall in Grand Rapids for two years, and then you transfer to FIT for your junior and senior year. And it's worked out very, very, very well.
And then they're able to get internships. You have to put your toe in, in New York, as you know, all the American designers that are really well-known are out of New York. There are some in Chicago, but they have a New York base. Not Chicago, I'm sorry. LA, there are some California designers, but they have a base in New York.
Jack: Yeah. That makes sense. And so amazing about the school. I didn't know how that that program actually worked, but I wonder, I'm sure you go in and you speak to students there fairly often. Is there any
Pamella: I did. I have to say I did before the pandemic, so many things. I have all these dresses that we still have not given to them because I'm waiting to find out when are they're actually going to be in-house school. And that's one thing that they're back to school now, but I have all these dresses cause it's so great for them to be able to see how these things are constructed. I just, I give them these dresses for them to look at and.
because one thing after being in business, as long as I have my back rooms, incredible. I have the best, best team. I mean, my production manager, I'm telling you , there has been a lot of people trying to he's actually now VP, but they've been trying to steal him for years. And he's just, I mean, we're so great about, cause one of the things that can kill you is your fits off.
If you know, somebody says, well, I'm a size six and one-time you are a size six and then you're a four and then you're eight. You know what I mean? It's all over the board. We become very consistent with our sizing. And I think that's, again, what has made us when we say we're a Pamella Roland is six, we're a six.. I had one time probably about 10 years ago, 12 years ago. So something was happening and I'm going, why are these clothes they're hippie? What is going on here? So I said to Michael, who I was talking about who runs the back room, I said, Where's the fit model. I want to see her. And I said, please measure her.
Her measurements were off. And I said, well, that's, what's going on. She's gained weight. And she goes, well, I went, I said, well, you're a fit model you can't do that. You have that's a problem when you're a fit model. That's what you do. Most people do it off mannequins, but with gowns that is as expensive as this, we really do it off bodies.
And we have a fit model now that we've had for a long time. . She's fantastic. Clara, she's been with us for awhile and not everyone does it that way, but when you're making high-end dresses, you do you want it more than on a mannequin because you want to see how it moves on a body, right?
Jack: What do you look for? If you're telling those students, for example, in what to look for in some of your older dresses or how do you spot things? I am struck by the fact that , you could just look at it and say, okay, this is too hippy. Here's what must be going on. Are there any things you tell students to look for in terms of construction or fit that you think are really helpful for those young designers?
Pamella: Oh gosh, to look for. Well, everyone does different things, but when you're a designer, it doesn't mean you're necessarily going to be able to do a pattern. And these classes, you have to take all these. So some are better than others. Some they can draw and they're great designers, but they really aren't very good at constructing it.
So it depends where you want to be as a designer. And that's why you have, I have pattern makers and Sowers, and I'm a designer. I am not very good at constructing. I can tell when something's constructed correctly and it's done well. I can tell when it looks bad and it looks cheap or it's not constructed well, but for me to sit there and do a pattern, I can't imagine.
I mean, I am so happy to have people that I have that can do that. And I had a young girl who I knew from her mother from day one. She worked for me in Montreal, and then she came to New York and she was incredible at constructing things. So she became more of a pattern maker.
And now she's married has a couple of kids, but she moved to Ireland and now she lives in London, but she learned basically through working with us. And it's got to, you know, it's gotta bethe area you love. Again, and at a university to get a degree, I don't have a degree in fashion. My degree is business and art history because we didn't have that.
So I have great people working for me to do that, but I know how to design a dress. I mean, I'm in the back room looking at things, when they start, we do our muslins and there's a lot of process to do. I had a lower end line. I didn't enjoy it. It was boring, but you can pretty much make anything.
And you can copy things. But when you're in the business that I'm doing, that you have to be you're a designer. You have to be creative and you can't go out and copy someone. You are actually creating a piece of art. It's very different. And that's what I love to do. I mean, I'm so excited about that and people always say, well, how can you come up with ideas all the time?
And where do you come up with your inspirations? And it's just been, I don't know. I don't think I've ever had a real struggle with that because I love it so much. I even dream sometimes I'll wake up and like write things down of Yeah, just something I love doing so much.
Jack: Do you gather any inspiration from some of the other work that you do? For example, I'm thinking obviously you've done so much work focused around Princess Diana's legacy and you've done so much work at the Whitney. I wonder if, if those have ever, being a part of those communities,
Pamella: honestly, it's funny people they noticed my inspirations usually are either art or travel.
And yes, , I mean, princess Diana is somebody that she got married a week before I did. So she was somebody I've always looked up to always. And I remember always following her fashion, which was a big deal, you know, in the eighties.
Yeah, I never really did. I never really did an inspiration on princess Diana. I've done it inspiration on, English things, but with her, her look was so eighties. It was hard to make her a inspiration, but you never know. Maybe I will someday at least And, you know, you can take pieces of what she wore and put them into your look and does not make it look eighties.
My daughter lives and married an English man. She got married and she lives in England herself. So
Jack: yeah, . Obviously the crown has inspired some people to really look for some of Diana's old sweaters, at least.
Pamella: Yeah. I had the one, I had a copy of the one that remember had all this white sheep and then one black sheep.
Oh yeah. I had that sweater. That was
my daughter actually got married at princess Diana's home, growing up Althorp.
Jack: Yeah, the pictures there were just amazing.
Pamella: It was really fun, but it was not a huge wedding. She told me you have five couples. I didn't even invite my sisters.
Jack: That's funny. That's great. She laid down the law.
Pamella: Yeah. But you know what we were trying to do in the church, they got married and I mean, we were full.
So she's 35 and he's 37. So they, they knew what they wanted.
Jack: That's great. Going back. I know you've mentioned a few times now specific names of folks that you've worked with, people that you've had for such a long time and after 20 years, I'm sure you've just had such experience in collaborating with a big team now.
How have you, what have you learned in terms of managing people or the process that has helped you collaborate on things, helping get your vision across into the final product?
Pamella: Well, I'm not intimidated anymore like I was in the very beginning. I really didn't know actually really what I was doing.
So there was a huge intimidation. Now. I don't put up with crap. I'm very, very kind. I'm a very good boss. I'm very good to everybody, but we've had some crazy people that are, you know, it's like, that's when you right away, they start pulling across you just say, you know what, I'm sorry, you're not being a team player.
We need say goodbye to you. So I would do that so much faster then I did in the past. I would listen to them complain, and everything, but you learn after a while, you know when somebody wants to be there, if they're showing signs, they're sick all the time or, they're just, again, they're letting the team down and people are starting to complain and you just say, you know what?
You don't look like you wanna be here anymore. And so I have had the same team for awhile. I'm really lucky. And I mean, that knock on wood, it's been incredible how well we all work together. And didn't lose anybody in the pandemic
but it wasn't that way in the beginning, when we were so young and our business it was hard. There was so much competition. And so when I started out, I wasn't just a gown cocktail designer that evolved in what people bought from us and they liked the best from us. I actually started a little bit more in the sports wear area cause that's really what I really like more honestly
I love sports wear, but they're the competition in the high end is so large for the French and the Italian. It's very hard for us to compete what the tailors they have in those countries. We don't have the tailors and they, in the United States and New York,, like they have there, these people grow up as young children, you know, that's what you can do the rest of your life.
We don't have that in our country, but the sowers I have and my pattern makers are fantastic. We had one that was with us a long time and it was really hard. Like her work I'd match it up against any tailor in Europe, but she retired and it's really hard to see these really great talents retire.
And so, , it's scary kind of the future we need, you know, people young today want to be a designer because they think, oh, I'm going to be famous. Well, very, very few people become a famous designer. But we need these people that are good at things like pattern maker or whatever, to stick to that because that's what they do. Well, we need that, but you often think that, you know, think about it. People go out and be a fashion designer because it looks so glamorous with all the, you know, the Instagrams and all that. It's not, it's a heck of a lot of work. Most people, if they don't have a sponsor or whatever, they can't make it.
It's extremely expensive. And I think what's so many designers concentrate on first, is they spend too much money. And I've always concentrated on the business side more than the fame side. I don't go on these shows. I haven't done any of that stuff personally. I've stuck to the business side of it.
So that's why I'm still here, often I see these new designers there and every magazine and every, they spend their money just crazy. And media is very expensive. Not like it used to be today it's more on social media, but getting into magazines and getting on TV and doing all that stuff that takes a lot of money.
And a lot of money is wasted in that.
Jack: Good advice I think for people coming up in the process. I think that they want the idea of what being a designer comes along with, even with what maybe what they like is doing the construction of the garments or,
Pamella: You have to work. You have to work for it and it's hard. It's long hours and especially before a show, there are times that we're working around the clock. You can't complain oh, I didn't get any sleep cause no one has. But, I mean, cause we're not doing shows right now, but people, once we start doing shows again, I think the younger generation will see this, but hopefully they understand that, you have to work your butt off, but it's different today. It's just so different from when I first started, we were showing at Bryant Park , there was no media, , our shows were huge and because there was no media and social media and all this stuff. I mean you did shows . It wasn't just a runway show.
I remember one time we had, I think my inspiration might've been Aspen and we actually had snow falling on the runway and it was so creative and dramatic. And now it's not worth spending the money on because a lot of times the big wigs of these companies and of the media and the press and all that, they don't come, they send somebody to take pictures and it's just not there.
The shows are not the same as they were back then.
Jack: Yeah, that's interesting and make sense while you're explaining it, but honestly, it's not something I'd thought of,
Pamella: I mean, some still do it was it Gucci did that crazy show and Venice that very publicized and all that, but somebody backed that and You know, no one can afford to do that, but we don't even have cause after Bryant park, we were at the Lincoln center for awhile.
Now there's really not a fashion week area. Everybody's doing their shows at a different place, which is really sad because all of us would be at Bryant Park or all of us were at Lincoln Center and then Lincoln Center didn't want us anymore. So now literally there's some places where we go, there's a few designers, but everyone does their own thing.
Now there's not one place we all get together anymore.
Jack: So it's just kind of dispersed throughout the city. I got it.
Pamella: It is. And I'm getting into when I was first into the CFDA was such a huge thing and I was so excited to be asked to be part of the CFDA. Now I don't know.
You don't hear about it as much. Fashion has changed a lot in 20 years. That's for sure.
Jack: I'm sure with all of the social media it's dramatically changed the nature of it, especially within New York. I wonder around that, that point of when you're talking about how much hard work it is, and I'm sure there are really so many different times throughout your career where you've been working with tight deadlines, like you said, you're a mom to three young kids when you started.
Always kind of bouncing all over the place through your many commitments? How do you manage kind of those tight deadlines while also trying to give space for the creativity part that you really love?
Pamella: Well, there was a crazy time in my life. My mom was ill. She's passed away. And I had the high end line I have now.
I had Pamella by Pamella Roland , which is a medium line. And then I had a wedding line all the same time. That was extremely stressful. I'm sure if I talk to my children about that time. Well, they were a little bit older then, but when they were younger, , I used to get phone calls. When are you coming home? Dad is so mean, but yeah, I mean, it was tough. I mean, I'm not going to lie it paid its toll a little bit, but on the other hand, my children are so proud of me and what I'm doing and they're very, very supportive. There were some not easy times in the very beginning.
I can tell you that was very tough because I was in New York more than I am now because I wore many hats. I had to do everything and I didn't really know what I was doing. So I was in New York. Now with zoom and everything, it's crazy. I don't have to be there as much.
And we do our fitting. I watch through zoom, but I mean, towards the end, I really have to make sure I'm not letting anything go out without me touching it. But it's nice. I also got rid of some of the lines, cause I finally realized I don't need this. This is just absolutely ridiculous.
And then with all my overhead, I had so much overhead, so many employees and New York space is so expensive. I had to get another showroom. Then I got storage. It was just becoming so ridiculous that it would be one thing if we're making a lot of money, but we weren't because we had this overhead that was ridiculous. So I went back to what I love. And so it's so much better. It's so much calmer. I feel like I have more time for creativity when I was doing all that before. I didn't have time for this line as much. And I think a lot of stuff went out that I didn't like. And so we lost . what was great about our business because we were trying to do too much.
So, you know, I just recently launched a fragrance. I'm not sure if you knew that
Jack: I saw, I saw on Instagram
Pamella: yeah. We just launched it right before Christmas in November. And it's done extremely well. And we're in a Bergdorf Neiman's and we sell online and I'm really proud of it.
It's taken off quite a bit. We haven't done a ton with it because it just was launched. And finally our candle and our lotion came in right before Christmas. One of the problems was we were waiting for our candle jar, the jar, we put our candles in we couldn't get them. Oh, wow. So, I mean the whole pandemic , you know how things are, you can't get certain things so.
Jack: Even the jars
Pamella: Yeah, just the candle part. So that came like, gosh, I bet it was December before we finally had a candle. Wow. Well, we're going to work on , Valentine's day and some of these other days it's a lull right now, but that I spent a lot of time at Neiman's introducing the fragrance.
I mean, I produce it myself from, I started, it took three years and I did the scent and everything. I chose everything from the very beginning because the creative process is what I love and it was really was great. My daughters were involved in it and one lived in New Zealand one lived in London and I was sending my samples to them.
So we were doing this, we're stuck home, but we're shipping these samples scents. And it was a really amazing process. And once we got down to the final, I was stuck between 2 scents and first it was three. I love all three of these and I didn't know what to do.
And one of the persons that, Actually produces, the perfume, they call them the nose, but it was Pierre and Gabrielle and then I narrowed it to two. And luckily the two that I liked was Gabrielle and they were very different, but she said, Hey, let's try mixing these together and see what we come up with.
So that's what happened and Gabriela, of course they're mostly French and then we had to do our bottle that, I mean, that took time even just picking out a cap it took forever. And then I finally found the bottle I liked and they said, oh, this is just continuing.
We finally found another one they're made in Italy. It's a beautiful bottle. I don't know if your mom has it.
You should buy her one for whenever. When's her birthday?
Jack: Yeah, not for awhile, but mother's day. At least I can get or a Valentine's day. It's a good idea.
Pamella: Yeah. I mean, they can just go online to Bergdorf Goodman and I don't know if they're in in the store yet at Bergdorf, but we are online.
We're in store at Neiman's, but we're working on getting in the store at Bergdorf, but today people buy things online more than they do anything in store. Anyway,
Jack: Is that true too Pamella for your gowns? Where are those purchased?
How much of that has really shifted?
Pamella: Well, right now I would say lot of it is online. We have a great business with Bergdorf and Saks and Neiman's and worldwide. A lot of this, if you go on my website, you'll be able to learn a lot more about that. I have to be on the phone with the Kennedy center in 10 minutes.
So if there's anything else that you want to.
Jack: I just, if we want to wrap with any great advice that you've gotten along the path or advice that you go and often share to other creatives, people who are coming up in fashion if you have any advice for those I that would love to hear that.
Pamella: Honestly I said it earlier to understand that you to be taken serious, you work hard and don't do one of these, you know? Oh, well, I don't know if I can do that. People take notice of how hard you work and, and it's unfortunate today. Not everyone has that work ethic that really takes to be a great designer.
As you know, a lot of the lower end thing everyone's wearing the exercise clothes and things like that. If you want to be where, in an actual design house, just show that you want to work. I have a pretty young designer and he really went up the ranks very quickly because he's works his butt off.
He's very conscientious. We worked very well together. He had lost one of my dresses. That was my personal dress and we didn't know what happened to it. So they made me another one. And then that one came, so I had two dresses. But he's respectful and he's fantastic.
That's what he proved to me. He works hard and he doesn't get all flustered under pressure. And for one thing in fashion can happen. Divas do not work for me at all. I will work as hard as anybody else, but if somebody is being a diva and just drama.
I have one story. This can happen. Runways, zippers break, before they go walking down the runway and they'll look at me like, oh my gosh, what do I do? They're waiting for me to freak out. I'm like Nope. There's nothing you can do. Just keep going. There's nothing you can do. The zipper broke.
What did we learn from this? Or you have a model who's tripping. They don't like it, but I'm just like you aren't walking the next look. .Sorry, that looks not going out because you can't walk. I had to fire a girl when we did a show at Saks in Dubai. She was being nasty with me and I don't think she knew I was a designer.
I think she thought I was a stylist. She's super tall. She had these like size 12 feet, we couldn't find shoes to fit her. So I said, just wear your shoes that are flat she's super tall and the gown will cover it so you're fine. And she was starting to get sassy with me. And I said, you know what? I don't need this.
You're out. So the rest of the models were kind of nasty to me and then their agent comes in and is like, oh, Pamella gives me a hug. And they all look at me like huh, so it's like be respectful cause you don't know who's in the room, might be somebody that's important to you. They were shocked. And I told the agent I said you have the nastiest models I've ever worked with.
Jack: It's very good advice and funny under our covered boss moments, so to speak. Thanks again. It's been so nice and nice to talk to you. It's been so long, so just great to hear your voice..
Pamella: You're welcome and good luck to you. Thank you. Have a great day. All right, thanks. Take care. Bye-bye.
Jack: Thanks for listening everyone. I hope you enjoyed hearing the stories that Pamella had to share from such a long time working in the fashion business. I think there's a lot of great lessons on work ethic to be gained from her and also a lot of insights into the fashion world that I, as a New Yorker hadn't known or seen up close.
And so I just feel very fortunate to have had her on the podcast. Please check her out online as well. You can go to her website at www.Pamellaroland.com or you can check her out on Instagram. They have a lot of new launches going on right now, including the perfume, which Pamella mentioned and hope you check it out.
You can also see more photos of Pamella's work on our Instagram @creationstoriesmediathanks as always to COMA media who provides music for the podcast, licensed under creative Commons thanks and make today a day to make.
